Okay I guess this goes without saying, but here's the power of tuning with a 3D map.
Benefits include being able to see quickly cells who's values are completely wrong or off (giant spikes in graphs). This can be done also with similar success by color-coding the map cells as MegaTune does. If the 3D map is present however, the colors are no longer needed and can now represent something else if you'd like. Or keep the colors. *shrug*
Another benefit of the graph is the ability to see your tune. Really see it come alive. Once you start looking at 3D maps you'll wonder how you ever did without them. It's very easy/common to tune for hours on what you thinks is a smooth, good performing map only to come up with this:
This was what I came up with for DanMartin's turbocharged Nissan SR20 motor without using the 3D map. (Note the spike was an AEM loading error, and was not really in the tune itself).
After getting used to it on other tuning adventures I went back and finished with this:
Again, here's what a well known/respected AEM certified tuner shop gave someone with a turbo SR20 engine:
Areas such as idle and WOT stand out differently from the next, because they were tuned. Everywhere else was a mess. After about 30 minutes of messing around I'd come up with this:
We're all tuners here... Which map would you rather have controlling your car? =D
Now these are pulse width maps (not VE) but the point is made I believe.
On to my next point about being able to grab cells and play with them in a manner of ways.
The second example above took me 30 minutes to re-work in AEM. If I had to do it in MegaTune for VEMS it would have taken me days (yes days) on and off tuning that map trying to get it right, and when I was done it probably wouldn't have been better that the first map I posted. Keep in mind this was done at my desk in my office away from the car using references of idle and WOT known to be decent and filling in the rest. Do that cell-by-cell and tell me how sane you come out on the other end.
Here's examples of what I'm talking about with cell selection and manipulation:
There's a few things I notice now it doesn't do that (maybe) would be nice. You can't hold Ctrl and click on cells to select a random bunch of cells. It only seems to let you select in a "rectangle" so you can select rows, columns, or boxes, but not a speckled pattern (obviously you lose the ability to "calculate ______" with this type of selection).
Take note there's more options I didn't show like "function" which applies a function to each cell with any letter like x referring to the cell's current value. I don't use that one much, but *shrug*.
I'm running late for a movie so I've got to go, but let me say this. If you've only ever tuned with MegaTune or something similar you really need to at least open AEM Pro and manipulate some maps. It's an eye opener.
Oh, and sorry about the image quality (colors are way off). My hosting place doesn't take PNGs.
Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
Ben, am I wrong to say MT *has* got 3d tuning? I thought it did...
Also, even though you can't use it, download MTX and load it in offline mode with some test file. It's very cool. The 3d in that is good stuff you can twist and move it and it looks lovely.
Fred.
Also, even though you can't use it, download MTX and load it in offline mode with some test file. It's very cool. The 3d in that is good stuff you can twist and move it and it looks lovely.
Fred.
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Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
Yes, MegaTune has 3D maps, but it's hidden away on the VEMS version and is useless to tune with, and only marginally worth looking at for smoothness checking. It's so hidden away I forget it's there. From a usability point of view it's horrible because it's so hidden, non-interactive and does not scale. Yes that's right, 255 is the highest VE value so that's the "top" of the 3D map, not matter if your highest value is less. So the map looks "flat" for the most part on a lot of people's tune.
When I say MS2Extra, I guess I don't know 100% what I'm talking about. I've tuned with MegaTuneX, MegaTuneExtra, MTX or what ever it's called on MS2Extra hardware. It deserves some credit. With it you can select large areas of the VE map (cumbersome as it is) and apply sweeping changes. I'm sure there's an okay 3D map view with it. I'll check it out tomorrow on the BMW I'm tuning at the moment and come back.
Point still stands. 3D maps and table selectability/manipulation is important. Also they both need to be front and center as it were. Don't hide one away.
Edit: Oh and Fred, keep it on topic. Expanding my tuning software experience isn't really part of the goal here.
When I say MS2Extra, I guess I don't know 100% what I'm talking about. I've tuned with MegaTuneX, MegaTuneExtra, MTX or what ever it's called on MS2Extra hardware. It deserves some credit. With it you can select large areas of the VE map (cumbersome as it is) and apply sweeping changes. I'm sure there's an okay 3D map view with it. I'll check it out tomorrow on the BMW I'm tuning at the moment and come back.
Point still stands. 3D maps and table selectability/manipulation is important. Also they both need to be front and center as it were. Don't hide one away.
Edit: Oh and Fred, keep it on topic. Expanding my tuning software experience isn't really part of the goal here.
Last edited by BenFenner on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
I'd say it deserves more than a little credit, it's pretty cool! You aren't thinking of tunerstudio are you?
MTX MegaTunix doesn't do fully ms2e support yet afaik.
I wouldn't call that interface you've posted a work of art btw :-p more like "needs work" ;-)
I'd strongly prefer something more compact, but these things are personal. So long as the components are scalable its all good.
Fred.
MTX MegaTunix doesn't do fully ms2e support yet afaik.
I wouldn't call that interface you've posted a work of art btw :-p more like "needs work" ;-)
I'd strongly prefer something more compact, but these things are personal. So long as the components are scalable its all good.
Fred.
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Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
Nope. Never used it. Heard good things about it. Things we should use as well.Fred wrote:You aren't thinking of tunerstudio are you?
Then the hardware I'm dealing with must just be MS2 then... =/Fred wrote:MTX MegaTunix doesn't do fully ms2e support yet afaik.
I only hold it up for it's functionality, not for it's looks. =]Fred wrote:I wouldn't call that interface you've posted a work of art btw :-p more like "needs work"
How much nicer is a black colored GUI when tuning at night though? Yes. A lot much nicer. (I do most WOT tuning at night)
We're not getting into a lean/bloated client argument already are we? =DFred wrote:I'd strongly prefer something more compact, but these things are personal. So long as the components are scalable its all good.
Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
Agreed. (smart man, but I feel you are far from alone there.)BenFenner wrote:Yes. A lot much nicer. (I do most WOT tuning at night)
No, the cost/weight/size of hardware one ;-) I didn't buy the eee just for the train rides.We're not getting into a lean/bloated client argument already are we? =D
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- QFP80 - Contributor
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Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
Heres how I set up map grid and 3d view on a nissan editor I wrote. 3d view supports "bouncing ball" type cursor tracing and can be locked to incoming datastream. 3d wireframe is immediately updated when working on the grid so it makes map sculpting easy when tuning.
written in .net/gdi+
written in .net/gdi+
- sry_not4sale
- LQFP144 - On Top Of The Game
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Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
Very nice!
Owner / Builder: 1983 Mazda Cosmo 12at (1200cc 2-rotor turbo) coupe [SPASTK]
165hp @ 6psi standard - fastest production car in japan Oct 82
165hp @ 6psi standard - fastest production car in japan Oct 82
Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
'tis nice, which api does it use?
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- QFP80 - Contributor
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Re: Future Tuning Software User Feature Wish List (UI stuff)
I havent implemented an api
edit: NM, you probably mean the gdi+ api, 2.0.
edit: NM, you probably mean the gdi+ api, 2.0.